In the end, this is the crossroads where I stand: and ironically, I've found my way to it thanks to the caring input of some pastors' wives. ;)
I'm excited to have a new way to look at "marrying" a church--it may mean that we stay where we are or that we leave--but this is it: if you can't trust a church with 10% of what you make, then you need to find a different church. We've never allowed money to be a factor in church selection. Now it looks like we're being told to make it a leading factor. Interesting.
As I reflect on that idea, I know that I have tithed consistently when I have been in churches where I've personally known leadership and pastors, in those cases giving while knowing that in part my gift pays to keep them leading me, has been an honor.
I've tithed where I've deeply known the people, where I know my giving supports their ministry passions as well as my own.
I've tithed where I've had the invite to hear the hearts of the finance committees as they hash out their budgets, for I can believe they want to be responsible with my gift seeing I am allowed to watch as they handle it.
But I've only been to a couple of churches where that scenario was the case, and it's been quite a while. These are the churches where giving 10% might have been challenging, but not because I worried I was being irresponsible as I gave my tithe. In those places, I wasn't ignorant of how it was being used. Those places weren't such large-scale business operations that money moved like a monsoon rather than a gentle rain. Maybe I'm not built for mega-church life. Maybe my past hurts go deep enough that I need to be more than just one of thousands of bricks in the financial wall of my local church. Maybe one of the reasons God led me to this place was to reveal where I'm needy in this way. At least for a season, I'm needy. So now my prayer is God help us find a place where we can really trust those around us (which implies really knowing them.)...trust that even if people really "see" us they'll stay in relationship with us and will continue to trust us, as well! I know it is in my heart to support the ministry passion of someone whose heart I deeply know, I'm just not mature enough to "cheerfully" support one that offers me no more access to its reality than just one block in a brochure and an envelope for my gift.
I'm realizing that as we went close to a year searching for a church home, we experienced a season in which we had the freedom to do our giving wherever the Spirit led for we had no real home to be called to support, and this has revealed another area where I need to do some poking. You see, I find I like gift-giving, but I hate just giving a gift card. And now that we're looking at seriously building an attachment with a church again, Idiscover that my attitude toward the rule of giving is selfish. The "rule" is you have to give a "10% giftcard" first--needed, but highly impersonal. Then with any extra money you have you can consider the kind of gift-shopping that has a personal touch. For me, the "sacrificial giving" part of starting to tithe to a specific church again will be sacrificing that joy I find in shopping, wrapping and presenting. May God find another source for any giving I've been doing that will now have to be abandoned as this era of free-giving comes to a close. (Or at least goes on hiatus until He multiplies my opportunities after I prove myself faithful, eh?)
I know when I was in church leadership, it never occurred to me that members were making this type of "sacrifice" when they filled out their envelopes, week after week, but I'm starting to see it now. I wish I could go back and thank them from that direction specifically. I know we could do this sort of giving, though. It's just a matter of rebuilding trust. I shared with Scott the story of the open air church that built its facilities with its priorities set on giving 50% of what came in to missions. I agree with my husband when he immediately and whole-heartedly said, "I could give 10% to that church!"
At least I know God is using "time and chance" (as Solomon put it) toreveal something wonderful and new to us. I'm reading Swindoll's words on being a servant (got from a garage sale) and two books on relationships with the homeless (on loan from a friend.) I'm attending a volunteer orientation at the end of the month about helping the teen homeless population downtown (learned of the group from the church newsletter) and to my wonder I'm serving on a Discipleship Walk in the fall alongside someone who moved downtown to start a church and do work with the homeless and impoverished. I don't know her yet, but I can't wait to be introduced! It's all starting to come into focus.
As we stand at this Crorssroads, may the wind of Your Spirit drive us in Your chosen direction; and if its not too much to ask, may that route lead us to a church of worthwhile industry where we might do more than just sojourn for a while. More interesting time and chance stuff: the service in which my husband played drums last week is designated as the Sojourn service at our current church. Sojourn by definition means, "a temporary stay." Indeed, I do feel a breeze kicking up. ;)
Commentary on this one was all my own, although some comments had moved to the private message domain. Certainly a topic people don't hesitate to discuss "outside" the church anyway.
Deborah Way: as I told a friend, "when I left my ranting and went to my servanthood Bible study, today's chapter had verses that seemed hand-picked by God for me today." Here's a sample:
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11 For no one ... See Morecan lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. I Cor 3. (Swindoll points out that "We humans are impressed with size and volume and noise and numbers...God's eye is always on motive, authenticity, the real truth beneath the surface." This seems to be a sharpening lens on the question of is bigger [mega-church] always better, or rather is it always more deserving?)
"...these may forget, but I [God] will not forget you. Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me..." Isa 49:15-16. (I think of the walls He's pointing out in me.)
And finally, if all else fails and we can't find that place where the "giving is good," I have this to consider: For God is not unjust so as to forget your hard work for him, or forget the way you used to show your love for him--and still do--by helping his children. (Hebrews 6:10)
SO, if we remain locked to churches where tithing feels sadly like little more than a form of enslavement, then God says, Take heart!
(Eph 6:7) Work with enthusiasm, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. 8 Remember that the Lord will reward each one of us for the good we do, whether we are slaves or free.
9 And in the same way, you masters must treat your slaves right. Don't threaten them; remember, you both have the same Master in heaven, and he has no favorites. 10 A final word: Be strong with the Lord's mighty power.
"A final word," eh? I guess we're done here. ;)
Showing posts with label charitable giving. Show all posts
Showing posts with label charitable giving. Show all posts
Monday, July 12, 2010
Take Two on What Do You Call Giving?
I'm still burdened for the one I called the "wounded giver". But I see I need to define him a little more clearly. He is not grossly selfish, nor is he mistrustful of God, but he is an enigma. Many people have been richly blessed as a result of their giving, so they often don't notice him; or if they do, they don't really understand him. He is the church pew equivalent of a homeless man. Often, people figure he must be "doing something wrong" in his giving. Nevertheless, he exists, often continuing to try to give. But he is the one for whom giving is like being told to put his hand on a hot stove...again and again. For some, the stove eventually proves too great a deterrent. I agree that giving is obedience and worship, so help me understand these two more wounded giver stories?
1) A pastor uses profanity with the receptionist at the BMW dealership where his car is being repaired. Is it obedience to promote his employment as God's representative if this is the norm of his "outside the pulpit" lifestyle? (Shall we make allowances that it was a bad day? That even those who choose to be held to the exemplary standard of the life of the cloth have bad days? Shall we also make allowance for the fact that, when confronted with his profanity as he picked up his car he most likely lied when he said it was actually his brother who was cursing on the phone, not him.)
2) Finally, after all these second-hand stories, I'll speak for myself. Some years ago, I had my tithe automatically deducted from my paycheck once by the church-school where I worked. I missed three Sundays straight when my eldest son was a toddler because he was in Ft. Worth Children's Hospital during that time. I didn't know about the deduction until I saw my depleted check and inquired. "We knew it was what you would want to do," was the answer I got. They were right, but they destroyed my opportunity for obedience, for how is it obedience if you don't have a choice? And is it worship if you only come aware of it after its done for you? (I was too young and naive to know that what they did was illegal. And, that they would shamelessly do something financially illegal doesn't speak too well of their sense of responsibility toward being trustworthy either.)
Trust lost, honor misplaced. What to do about it?
Indeed, I haven't heard it preached on in this setting, so I'm going out on a limb here. I have no theology to base this upon, just an instinct. Hopefully a spiritual one. For a person to share what God has entrusted to his or her care, this is a condition of relationship; and whether the church accepts this or not, it is thereby in a damageable relationship with a tither. The more the tither's income hovers near bare sustenance levels, the greater the potential for that damage.
Any therapist can tell you the steps for rebuilding trust in a damaged relationship. Here are the first few that I know:
1) Admit that the wounded party has a valid reason for mistrust. Don't be defensive, don't project and don't turn the tables on the tither in a passive-aggressive fashion.
2) Quit using "It all belongs to God" to minimize or even discount entirely the fact that the giver had a choice. In a "human" relationship such marginalization would be considered emotionally abusive.
3) Be financially transparent during the rebuilding stage if such a stage can occur and legitimately receptive to observations made by the wounded party during that stage.
4) Allow that it might take some time to get to that place where you both want to be.
Wishful thinking...but at least maybe I'll sleep now..
Commentary for this one read:
Deborah Way: a friend sent me this in a msg. Sharing it because it is a better conclusion than I have been drawing, but allowing her to remain anonymous:
"I fully agree with your premise. There ARE pastors who abuse their responsible position. I have definitely witnessed it here at a large church in FW. However God has intervened and the church is basically ... See Moregone now.. It is too complicated to go into all the details but God will NOT be mocked and people cannot continue to use God's children, I just want the decisions about whether to stay or go to be based on Truth and God's specific leading rather than on appearances. I trust you. I was just making a point. Thanks for listening and God bless you as you decide."
Sadly, when the "church" gets the blame for abuses, you can't sift out the good pastors and pastors' wives and set them aside so they don't have to hear something you've repressed over the years and need to get out. Only by a sad warping of the Gospel are people taught to share the pains affecting their personality...except wherer those pains relate to the church, then they are still taught to be ashamed to speak of them. Thanks to my friends who have walked this path of self-discovery with me--listening deeply, but telling me where they think I'm wandering off into the brush. Writing a last note on this...what good is Armageddon without a New Jerusalem?
Steven M Grochowsky: I like what you're writing and am interested in seeing where it goes further... for the nonce, I think I'll withhold any comment out of personal experience, but I will pass along a wonderful lyric from Mary-Chapin Carpenter that seems relevant:
I sat alone in the dark one night, tuning in by remote
I found a preacher who spoke of the light but there was brimstone in his throat
He'd show me the way according to him in return for my personal check... See More
I flipped my channel back to CNN and I lit another cigarette
I take my chances, forgiveness doesn't come with a debt...
Deborah Way: Yo, Steve. I put a last note of "where it goes further" on this morning. Dare I say, that lyric is the song of exactly the people for whom I'm feeling the burden to speak.
Steven M Grochowsky: "The church is still a sinful institution," a Benedictine monk wrote to me when I was struggling over whether or not to join a church. "How could it be otherwise?" he asked, and I was startled into a recognition of simple truth. The church is like the Incarnation itself, a shaky proposition. It is a human institution, full of ordinary people, ... See Moresinners like me, who do and say cruel, stupid things. But it is also a divinely inspired institution, full of good purpose, which partakes of a unity far greater than the sum of its parts. That is why it is called the Body of Christ.
Kathleen Norris, "Amazing Grace: A Vocabulary of Faith."
1) A pastor uses profanity with the receptionist at the BMW dealership where his car is being repaired. Is it obedience to promote his employment as God's representative if this is the norm of his "outside the pulpit" lifestyle? (Shall we make allowances that it was a bad day? That even those who choose to be held to the exemplary standard of the life of the cloth have bad days? Shall we also make allowance for the fact that, when confronted with his profanity as he picked up his car he most likely lied when he said it was actually his brother who was cursing on the phone, not him.)
2) Finally, after all these second-hand stories, I'll speak for myself. Some years ago, I had my tithe automatically deducted from my paycheck once by the church-school where I worked. I missed three Sundays straight when my eldest son was a toddler because he was in Ft. Worth Children's Hospital during that time. I didn't know about the deduction until I saw my depleted check and inquired. "We knew it was what you would want to do," was the answer I got. They were right, but they destroyed my opportunity for obedience, for how is it obedience if you don't have a choice? And is it worship if you only come aware of it after its done for you? (I was too young and naive to know that what they did was illegal. And, that they would shamelessly do something financially illegal doesn't speak too well of their sense of responsibility toward being trustworthy either.)
Trust lost, honor misplaced. What to do about it?
Indeed, I haven't heard it preached on in this setting, so I'm going out on a limb here. I have no theology to base this upon, just an instinct. Hopefully a spiritual one. For a person to share what God has entrusted to his or her care, this is a condition of relationship; and whether the church accepts this or not, it is thereby in a damageable relationship with a tither. The more the tither's income hovers near bare sustenance levels, the greater the potential for that damage.
Any therapist can tell you the steps for rebuilding trust in a damaged relationship. Here are the first few that I know:
1) Admit that the wounded party has a valid reason for mistrust. Don't be defensive, don't project and don't turn the tables on the tither in a passive-aggressive fashion.
2) Quit using "It all belongs to God" to minimize or even discount entirely the fact that the giver had a choice. In a "human" relationship such marginalization would be considered emotionally abusive.
3) Be financially transparent during the rebuilding stage if such a stage can occur and legitimately receptive to observations made by the wounded party during that stage.
4) Allow that it might take some time to get to that place where you both want to be.
Wishful thinking...but at least maybe I'll sleep now..
Commentary for this one read:
Deborah Way: a friend sent me this in a msg. Sharing it because it is a better conclusion than I have been drawing, but allowing her to remain anonymous:
"I fully agree with your premise. There ARE pastors who abuse their responsible position. I have definitely witnessed it here at a large church in FW. However God has intervened and the church is basically ... See Moregone now.. It is too complicated to go into all the details but God will NOT be mocked and people cannot continue to use God's children, I just want the decisions about whether to stay or go to be based on Truth and God's specific leading rather than on appearances. I trust you. I was just making a point. Thanks for listening and God bless you as you decide."
Sadly, when the "church" gets the blame for abuses, you can't sift out the good pastors and pastors' wives and set them aside so they don't have to hear something you've repressed over the years and need to get out. Only by a sad warping of the Gospel are people taught to share the pains affecting their personality...except wherer those pains relate to the church, then they are still taught to be ashamed to speak of them. Thanks to my friends who have walked this path of self-discovery with me--listening deeply, but telling me where they think I'm wandering off into the brush. Writing a last note on this...what good is Armageddon without a New Jerusalem?
Steven M Grochowsky: I like what you're writing and am interested in seeing where it goes further... for the nonce, I think I'll withhold any comment out of personal experience, but I will pass along a wonderful lyric from Mary-Chapin Carpenter that seems relevant:
I sat alone in the dark one night, tuning in by remote
I found a preacher who spoke of the light but there was brimstone in his throat
He'd show me the way according to him in return for my personal check... See More
I flipped my channel back to CNN and I lit another cigarette
I take my chances, forgiveness doesn't come with a debt...
Deborah Way: Yo, Steve. I put a last note of "where it goes further" on this morning. Dare I say, that lyric is the song of exactly the people for whom I'm feeling the burden to speak.
Steven M Grochowsky: "The church is still a sinful institution," a Benedictine monk wrote to me when I was struggling over whether or not to join a church. "How could it be otherwise?" he asked, and I was startled into a recognition of simple truth. The church is like the Incarnation itself, a shaky proposition. It is a human institution, full of ordinary people, ... See Moresinners like me, who do and say cruel, stupid things. But it is also a divinely inspired institution, full of good purpose, which partakes of a unity far greater than the sum of its parts. That is why it is called the Body of Christ.
Kathleen Norris, "Amazing Grace: A Vocabulary of Faith."
What Do You Call Giving? (part 1)
Last Sunday we heard the following preached: Americans only give 2% to their local churches, and God says it all belongs to Him, so since He said we should be giving 10%, then we should be giving 10%. Everyone oohed and aahed about what amazing things the church was doing with that 2% and just imagine what it could do with 10? All that is true. But the service felt like it presented a fine piece of unfinished furniture for display. So here's my letter about that to the pastor:
Dear Pastor,
I really appreciated the sermon on generously giving, cheerfully giving. I appreciated the inserts from the financial planner who helps us to feel empowered to do that cheerful, generous giving; but there are a couple of points that I don't think made it into the 4-week series, and I would love to see them addressed.
1. "Americans don't give" is an assumption that can not be made based simply by considering the stat that only 2% of earnings are going to the local church. As of January, American's had, in fact, given $3 million via text messaging to the Red Cross for Haiti relief.
( http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/americans-give-record-3-million-via-text-messages-for-haiti-rel/19316813/ )
The point to dwell on is not "why don't Americans give" because they do; the point to labor over is "why don't Americans trust the church to be the clearing house for their giving the same way they trust the Red Cross?" But that smacks of self-examination on the part of the church, a stance rarely taken during stewardship drives. ;)
2. You outlined traits of various non-givers. Many fail to give, you said, either because they weren't sure how to start charitable giving and/or they lacked the faith to give sacrificially. Then, of course, there are those who simply don't believe it really IS all God's, who worked hard for what they have and are justified in being selfish with it. But I believe you missed a large demographic group. If I were to give them a label, I'd call them the "wounded givers". They've given sacrificially, consistently, even cheerfully, and been horrifically burned. Here are some shapshots of their lives:
In things natural, it wounds people to learn that, while they're eating balogna sandwiches in order to write checks to the church, the money they put in the offering goes to pay for the twin Jaguars that Pastor and Mrs. Pastor use to toodle around town. (Pastor and Mrs. Pastor won't touch balogna.) These Givers hear a sermon about "It's all God's," and the first thing to hit the poor schmucks is guilt for having enabled such irresponsible usage of their offering. Even that response depends on their getting past wearing the blinders they've been commanded to wear as their spiritual leaders claim, "My wealth IS my witness. People see how well God is taking care of me, and they want to know more about Him." There are more laymen out there in churches like these than you'd ever imagine! But if they poke their heads out of that rabbit-hole, they're quickly trounced for being irreverent.
In things supernatural, it wounds people to hear "Test God. See if He doesn't give back into your coffers, heaping them up to overflowing!" So these tentative, hopeful givers give all they have. We don't like to follow their story beyond the offering bucket, buit if we do, we might easily see that within 3 days they are mysteriously robbed, the victims of burglars for the first time in their lives. What's more, several things they can't afford to fix or replace break in that same week, expensive things, necessary things. If you take the time to ask them, and if they trust you enough to give you a straight answer, they'd probably tell you that in the end, you were right. He did give back an abundant blessing. But the frontload of testing God looks deeply dangerous, and the backload of blessing--why it might not be monetary at all, although the blessing and riches were worth more than money. Most of us don't hear this part of the story because by the time these wounded givers realize the way God works, they've likely moved on from talking to the one making tunnel-vision promises anyway. Their way of giving fought and defeated its enemy alone--by human measure, and on a supernatural plane. Now their giving activity--while quite real--could hardly be classified on a spread sheet or even perceived by many. Nevertheless, when they were land-locked and still learning, why didn't anyone tell them the real parameters of "giving and receiving" in the first place?
So, when the concluding question of the sermon series came up, "Do you trust God enough to give? It's His money anyway." it just felt like the wrong question. Here's the question I want to hear sermonized and then left for me to ponder: "Do you trust people enough to give them the part of God's money that's been entrusted to you?" To simply think people don't give is naive and self-deluding.
I genuinely believe and have full confidence that if you took the time to meditate and seek God's mind on this topic, this question; we'd hear something deeply powerful from you!
Sincerely yours,
...from one who direct-gives to charities and as the wind of the Spirit leads and sometimes to church, but mostly anonymously with cash.
Commentary ran as follows:
Kari Hallett Miller: I'm pretty hardcore about this. I believe that scripture is pretty clear that the tithe belongs to the church, and above and beyond offerings can go anywhere you want.
I also don't belive we give to God to get financial awards. We give because it is an act of obedience and worship.
I would also posit that perhaps people are not in the right body if they cannot trust the leadership to deal well with their money.
2 people liked this response
Me: Kari...I agree. As pastors, you and Paul are the saving grace that counter balances these churches of excess I describe. And they aren't a fabrication. I have personally attended a few of them! And I agree that a tithe is a tithe, it's just sometimes you wonder whether you're really pouring it into a "church" or into something else. I wish that question and what to do about it got talked about more often than it does! Then maybe people would start giving their "millions" back to the church to distribute.
Deborah Way ...but you give me something to think about. Is it time to look at the trust factor we have for our church. To be really bare naked about it, I have a difficult time hearing someone tell me to give them money and quit being so consumption-minded when he just hopped out of a Lexus. I need to pray about whether that's something that's wrong with my attitude or something wrong with where we're attending. Keep me honest, Kari! I love you...
Kari Hallett Miller: Keep thinking! When I worked at CPC we had a program where people donated cars. Our two top executives drove Lexus' that had been donated...why? Because, when dealing with multi-millionaire donors they wouldn't even be heard without a status car...pretty sad, but true. I guess with the pastor I would ask, was the car a gift, a dream he has been... See More saving for for years and paid cash, is it used and he got a fantastic deal, or is it an outlandish expenditure? Ask to take a look at the church financials. How much are they giving to missions? How much is being given to run ministries in the church? How much to salaries? All are part of spreading the gospel, but it should give you some idea of a balance.
That being said, one of the reasons I love the head guy of the Indiana Assemblies of God is that even though he is the "top of the foodchain" so to speak, he still drives his Chevy Malibu. That makes me trust him a little more.
I know the excesses exist. I see them. I know churches that embody them. However, don't let that stop you from obeying God. Even if you have to examine they whys and wheres of how you can do that.
Me: Thanks, Kari...I think I'm getting a little closer to what I was actually wanting my words to say. I'm doing a part 2 on that note. I still feel a burden for those "wounded givers" I mentioned. Sharing what God gave to you is very much like a personal relationship--and that's the real place that I need to examine.
Dear Pastor,
I really appreciated the sermon on generously giving, cheerfully giving. I appreciated the inserts from the financial planner who helps us to feel empowered to do that cheerful, generous giving; but there are a couple of points that I don't think made it into the 4-week series, and I would love to see them addressed.
1. "Americans don't give" is an assumption that can not be made based simply by considering the stat that only 2% of earnings are going to the local church. As of January, American's had, in fact, given $3 million via text messaging to the Red Cross for Haiti relief.
( http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/americans-give-record-3-million-via-text-messages-for-haiti-rel/19316813/ )
The point to dwell on is not "why don't Americans give" because they do; the point to labor over is "why don't Americans trust the church to be the clearing house for their giving the same way they trust the Red Cross?" But that smacks of self-examination on the part of the church, a stance rarely taken during stewardship drives. ;)
2. You outlined traits of various non-givers. Many fail to give, you said, either because they weren't sure how to start charitable giving and/or they lacked the faith to give sacrificially. Then, of course, there are those who simply don't believe it really IS all God's, who worked hard for what they have and are justified in being selfish with it. But I believe you missed a large demographic group. If I were to give them a label, I'd call them the "wounded givers". They've given sacrificially, consistently, even cheerfully, and been horrifically burned. Here are some shapshots of their lives:
In things natural, it wounds people to learn that, while they're eating balogna sandwiches in order to write checks to the church, the money they put in the offering goes to pay for the twin Jaguars that Pastor and Mrs. Pastor use to toodle around town. (Pastor and Mrs. Pastor won't touch balogna.) These Givers hear a sermon about "It's all God's," and the first thing to hit the poor schmucks is guilt for having enabled such irresponsible usage of their offering. Even that response depends on their getting past wearing the blinders they've been commanded to wear as their spiritual leaders claim, "My wealth IS my witness. People see how well God is taking care of me, and they want to know more about Him." There are more laymen out there in churches like these than you'd ever imagine! But if they poke their heads out of that rabbit-hole, they're quickly trounced for being irreverent.
In things supernatural, it wounds people to hear "Test God. See if He doesn't give back into your coffers, heaping them up to overflowing!" So these tentative, hopeful givers give all they have. We don't like to follow their story beyond the offering bucket, buit if we do, we might easily see that within 3 days they are mysteriously robbed, the victims of burglars for the first time in their lives. What's more, several things they can't afford to fix or replace break in that same week, expensive things, necessary things. If you take the time to ask them, and if they trust you enough to give you a straight answer, they'd probably tell you that in the end, you were right. He did give back an abundant blessing. But the frontload of testing God looks deeply dangerous, and the backload of blessing--why it might not be monetary at all, although the blessing and riches were worth more than money. Most of us don't hear this part of the story because by the time these wounded givers realize the way God works, they've likely moved on from talking to the one making tunnel-vision promises anyway. Their way of giving fought and defeated its enemy alone--by human measure, and on a supernatural plane. Now their giving activity--while quite real--could hardly be classified on a spread sheet or even perceived by many. Nevertheless, when they were land-locked and still learning, why didn't anyone tell them the real parameters of "giving and receiving" in the first place?
So, when the concluding question of the sermon series came up, "Do you trust God enough to give? It's His money anyway." it just felt like the wrong question. Here's the question I want to hear sermonized and then left for me to ponder: "Do you trust people enough to give them the part of God's money that's been entrusted to you?" To simply think people don't give is naive and self-deluding.
I genuinely believe and have full confidence that if you took the time to meditate and seek God's mind on this topic, this question; we'd hear something deeply powerful from you!
Sincerely yours,
...from one who direct-gives to charities and as the wind of the Spirit leads and sometimes to church, but mostly anonymously with cash.
Commentary ran as follows:
Kari Hallett Miller: I'm pretty hardcore about this. I believe that scripture is pretty clear that the tithe belongs to the church, and above and beyond offerings can go anywhere you want.
I also don't belive we give to God to get financial awards. We give because it is an act of obedience and worship.
I would also posit that perhaps people are not in the right body if they cannot trust the leadership to deal well with their money.
2 people liked this response
Me: Kari...I agree. As pastors, you and Paul are the saving grace that counter balances these churches of excess I describe. And they aren't a fabrication. I have personally attended a few of them! And I agree that a tithe is a tithe, it's just sometimes you wonder whether you're really pouring it into a "church" or into something else. I wish that question and what to do about it got talked about more often than it does! Then maybe people would start giving their "millions" back to the church to distribute.
Deborah Way ...but you give me something to think about. Is it time to look at the trust factor we have for our church. To be really bare naked about it, I have a difficult time hearing someone tell me to give them money and quit being so consumption-minded when he just hopped out of a Lexus. I need to pray about whether that's something that's wrong with my attitude or something wrong with where we're attending. Keep me honest, Kari! I love you...
Kari Hallett Miller: Keep thinking! When I worked at CPC we had a program where people donated cars. Our two top executives drove Lexus' that had been donated...why? Because, when dealing with multi-millionaire donors they wouldn't even be heard without a status car...pretty sad, but true. I guess with the pastor I would ask, was the car a gift, a dream he has been... See More saving for for years and paid cash, is it used and he got a fantastic deal, or is it an outlandish expenditure? Ask to take a look at the church financials. How much are they giving to missions? How much is being given to run ministries in the church? How much to salaries? All are part of spreading the gospel, but it should give you some idea of a balance.
That being said, one of the reasons I love the head guy of the Indiana Assemblies of God is that even though he is the "top of the foodchain" so to speak, he still drives his Chevy Malibu. That makes me trust him a little more.
I know the excesses exist. I see them. I know churches that embody them. However, don't let that stop you from obeying God. Even if you have to examine they whys and wheres of how you can do that.
Me: Thanks, Kari...I think I'm getting a little closer to what I was actually wanting my words to say. I'm doing a part 2 on that note. I still feel a burden for those "wounded givers" I mentioned. Sharing what God gave to you is very much like a personal relationship--and that's the real place that I need to examine.
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